Adam Levy 00:02
Hello, I’m Adam Levy, and this is Mind matters: academia’s mental health crisis, a podcast from Nature Careers. In this episode: promoting wellbeing.
Throughout this series, we have focused on the challenges that academia can pose for the mental health and well-being of researchers, whether they’re dealing with the responsibility of faculty roles or being targeted by harassment.
And through these stories, we’ve not just learnt about the problems that scientists encounter. We’ve also heard their solutions the work academics are doing to promote and protect their well-being and the well-being of others.
And in this episode, we’re going to be looking at precisely that, reflecting on some steps that academics or labs can take to be happier and healthier.
Kicking us off, here’s Desiree Dickerson, who we heard from in the first episode of the series. Desiree is based in the Valencia region in Spain, where she works as a clinical psychologist and consultant in academic mental health. She suggests that shifting focus can have profound impacts.
Desiree Dickerson 01:17
The key tool that we wield is our attention, right? The spotlight of our attention and where we shine it.
Because we tend towards perfection, because we tend towards, you know, always seeking to improve, be better, learn more, grow more, etc. we tend to shine that spotlight of our attention on ourselves, right?
And therefore, you know, sit very heavily under a spotlight of: “Why did I say it that way? Why did I do it that way? Why couldn’t I? I should have done it this way. I should, I could have done it better. I should have done more.”
And I think we are not very good at taking the spotlight off ourselves and shining it on “Why I’m here, what I seek to contribute, what it is that brought me here in the first place.”
Which were all the reasons you came to academia in the first place, without question, but they very quickly get put down in this sort of pursuit of self-optimization, and you know, seeking to just survive in academia, I think in reality, it’s not, it’s not done for bad reasons.
It’s just, of course, you want to do everything you possibly can, which means we spend our academic careers in survival mode for a very long time.
And a lot of that means our attention is often on our flaws, our weaknesses, our doubts and fears, as opposed to the strengths. I do have, the things I do bring to the, to the party, right?
And it is a really nice reset function, I find.
Adam Levy 02:43
And we’ll be hearing more about shifts of focus later in that episode, where we’ll discuss how mindfulness can help support mental health.
Next up, though, I spoke with Ellen Wehrens, project manager and scientific writer at Princess Máxima Center in Utrecht, the Netherlands.
Back in 2019 her lab took the perhaps unusual step of organizing a happiness programme, which Ellen wrote about for Nature’s careers section.
I was keen to find out what lessons still remained over half a decade later.
But first, I wanted to know how Ellen initially reacted to the idea of a happiness programme.
Ellen Wehrens 03:22
So at first, I was a little bit sceptical, I’ll admit.
And I think it’s also because I came from a postdoc in the US where my PI unfortunately was under the impression that if people are relaxed or too happy, they’re not working hard enough.
So for me, it was kind of a change in, kind of perspective, but it was also a relief, to be honest.
Yeah, I think the reason also we embarked on this happiness programme is also to allow us to work efficiently together and better together, but also happier together.
So I found it quite refreshing. But I was also a little bit like, “Oh, how are we going to do all that on top of the workload we already have?” basically.
Adam Levy 04:01
Now lots of principal investigators might absolutely agree that happiness in the lab is a really important goal and really important for productivity as well. But to actually embark on a happiness programme is a step that maybe is a little bit rarer?
Can you share, or do you know what your principal investigator’s reasoning was for embarking on this programme?
Ellen Wehrens 04:21
Well, first of all, I think she’s also a special person, and it’s absolutely also her. Personally, she’s a little bit over the top.
So everything she does, she does it with full dedication. But I think also for her, it was about recognizing…she recently started her own independent lab. She expanded quite quickly from, like, four people in the lab to 17 that we were at the time.
And she felt she could not manage everybody to be happy. That could not just come from her. And she basically wanted people to also to take their own responsibility. So basically, we could also work very well together as a team.
Adam Levy 05:02
Now this maybe sounds quite abstract, how this can be implemented. So maybe you can walk us through some of what this training actually entailed.
I mean, firstly, how did it help you, personally, as an individual, understand your needs for happiness in the lab?
Ellen Wehrens 05:20
Yeah, I think the biggest part at the start of the programme is that we took, like, a very extensive personality test.
And for me, that was kind of mind blowing. I was actually somebody that was not an introvert, but also not an outgoing person. I was right in the middle of that spectrum, and I didn’t think that was possible.
So for me, that was also clarifying a little bit how I like to work with people, but I don’t like to take centre stage, basically, and have the attention focused on me.
But then in team sessions, Herman made that very insightful for us, and for instance, he just ordered us physically in a row, in the meeting room based on whether we are like outgoing personalities, or like introverted personalities.
So then it makes it super visual, and then you see maybe your colleague that you sometimes don’t understand where they’re coming from.
Or they come into the office in the morning and they’re so noisy, right? And they feel, you feel, as an introvert, that they ask way too much attention.
And if you then see them standing in front of this row with the outgoing and the outward personalities, and it all kind of becomes very clear, and it makes sense, and it becomes visual.
Adam Levy 06:30
Now, I understand the happiness programme also helped set individual goals that you all want to achieve in your work. How did this operate?
Ellen Wehrens 06:39
That was based on what is your like, job satisfaction level, and it has also to do with how meaningful do you feel like what you’re doing is. Because that helps, right?
It can be maybe hard work, but if you feel that it has a clear meaning or purpose, then it’s easier to kind of stand the kind of time investment or what you need to do.
And based on that, we designed kind of, or defined our own personal learning goals to kind of see where we could improve on this job satisfaction if it was not above a certain percentage.
Adam Levy 07:13
I understand as well from reading your comment piece there was also some kind of buddy system. Is that right?
Ellen Wehrens 07:19
Yeah, I think the buddy system for us is just that we don’t want anybody falling through the cracks. We were a big team at the time. We still are.
That gives them basically a very kind of short line towards somebody that can be there for you. But I think it’s more also the other way around, that that body then signals if you’re not doing well, and can reach out to you.
And for me, actually, again, going back to the different personalities, I chose someone which has a little bit of a different personality to me.
And because of that, I kind of looked up to this person a little bit, and I thought I can maybe also learn a little bit from how she approaches things.
So I actually chose a little bit of a buddy system, maybe out of my comfort zone.
It just makes you feel supported. Because when you voice something, yeah, in our lab meetings, we are quite open about what we share or how we are doing, and then if, then somebody after that reaches out to you and say, “Hey, I signal that you maybe not are doing so great. Do you want to talk about it? Should we have a coffee?”
And it’s also fine if you don’t want to do that, but at least it feels like you’re seen, and that already helps.
Adam Levy 08:32
I think you actually underwent this programme in 2019 as I mentioned.
Of course, in 2020 there was the COVID pandemic.
How were the lessons and the structures from this programme applicable in this very drastically-altered situation?
Ellen Wehrens 08:48
Yeah, so I think first of all, it really helped for us to feel still connected as a team, even though we were not like seeing each other or physically meeting each other.
Beforehand, we already started to implement what we call, like the colour of happiness, or colour coding system.
So what we do in our general round is that we state in colour that basically reflects our overall wellbeing in that moment.
So green, you’re doing great. Yellow, not so much, and red, you’re not doing well. I think in these online meetings, that also, first of all, helped, again, to see if somebody might not be doing well, and then a buddy would kind of pick up on that and reach out to that person separately.
But it also helped us to kind of signal the overall sentiment. And I do remember one time, I don’t know, I think we were halfway in the work-from-home mandate. More and more people starting to end up in the red, right? And it’s also, I think that’s natural.
You also influence each other a little bit, but the overall sentiment was going down. And then we also tried to host, like an online, informal get together where we just had a drink, we talked about other stuff, not work-related.
To also kind of share a little bit of these kind of connection moments when it was not about work, basically.
Adam Levy 10:06
We’re now speaking around six years after you took part in this programme. Do you still see aspects of what you learned in that programme, in how the lab operates today?
Ellen Wehrens 10:16
Yes I do, and I think obviously it’s not as extensive as we did when we were still running the programme.
But for instance, this colour-coding thing on our lab meetings, we still do it, and I think it’s really powerful. Because it basically gives you kind of an opportunity to very low key let people know how you’re doing.
We also never ask for an explanation, but again, it gives an opportunity for people to act on it, and it also really signals also, I think, to the new people that come into the team, like we care about this, like we care about each other’s wellbeing, and we think it’s important.
We have this very open culture. We are used to talking about everything, because we started this, doing this in the in the happiness programme.
It’s also very normal to show emotion. Because, right, sometimes in these lab meetings, we say, “Yeah, I’m not doing well.” And we give an explanation. “I experienced this too.”
I was like, “Okay, I want the team to know, because this is not going to be my best week at work, and I’m just going to tell them about it.”
But then in doing so you sometimes get emotional, right? Because it’s yeah, something that’s close to the heart, and it’s why you’re not doing well. And for us, I mean, we are like so used to that.
So I think it really set a culture that is yeah, that is still serving us to this day. If people are thinking about yeah, changing something in their specific situation or lab, then I really think this colour-coding thing that we have during our general round is really what’s what creates a lot of openness.
So I think if there’s anything you’re thinking about maybe implementing in your own group, then this would be my advice.
Adam Levy 11:56
Do you have any examples or anecdotes of when this commitment to well-being, to emotional vulnerability and openness, where it’s really been valuable, either for you or in particular dynamics in the lab?
Ellen Wehrens 12:11
Well, there has been a recent example where, unfortunately, one of our PhD students is very, very sick.
They have been very open about it from the start. And what for me was impressive is that one of the first lab meetings we had after we found all this out, there was a student, actually, who just joined the lab. And what she said, and I found it very impactful.
She said, like, “I really am grateful to be working here, not just because of the science and the research that you guys do, but also how you work together as a team and how you support each other.”
So I also felt like there, the way we handled basically that situation, it was also rubbing off on this student, and she, like, immediately sensed it while she was very new to the team. So I thought that was kind of impactful
Adam Levy 13:00
That was Ellen Wehrens describing how a lab as a whole can take steps to build a culture of happiness.
And my next interviewee is focused on what individual academics can do to improve their wellbeing, as well as finding routes to productivity.
Ana Pineda is a guest researcher at the University of Alicante in Spain. But that’s not her only affiliation.
She’s also the founder of the coaching organization I Focus and Write, dedicated to promoting the tools that helped her make progress, practically and mentally, throughout her academic career.
So I started out by asking: what kind of challenges did working in academia present for your for your well being, for your mental health?
Ana Pineda 13:48
Oh, well, there were many, and they were evolving and changing.
Something that I always shared is this, that the new level, new devil.
So mine were more in the, let’s say, in the lighter side, but well, first I had very strong imposter syndrome, and then all the challenges that that brings in. And that feeling that that I wasn’t good enough, that everything that happened was a slack that also triggered well, a lot of fears, fear of finishing things, that was a big struggle, finishing things, finishing papers, and thinking that there was something wrong with me, right? That I think, is also very common with those of us who suffer this imposter syndrome.
Adam Levy 14:34
So then, what kind of steps have you taken over the course of your career to, I suppose, safeguard your mental health and well-being?
Ana Pineda 14:43
First, during my PhD I discovered yoga, and I’m really bad at consistency, okay, but when I would be consistent with my yoga practice, with meditation, I was just feeling better, feeling more calm, more content with my research.
And that, I would say, was the first measure I took. I can’t remember, but specific situations when they really saved my mental health and saved me also from actually not quitting at certain moments.
So that would be the first one. And then second, well, I’m a big people person, and I always search for the support.
For example, there was a moment when I had to do these experiments in greenhouses in the southeast of Spain, and I, one day, I said, “I’m not going. I’m not going anymore. I cannot be there alone doing this sampling.” It was quite intense.
And my parents, they’re quite old, they would come with me, and they would bring their chairs and their parasols, newspapers, and sit there while I was doing my sampling.
And the same during that time, many friends came to help me with planting flowers that we introduced into the greenhouses or things like that.
So really gathering the power of people, you need to find your angels and people that you can really find that support in this career.
Adam Levy: 16:06
Now, coming back to the support you actually were able to give yourself, you mentioned meditation. Can you explain what meditation actually involves and what it involved for you?
Ana Pineda 16:18
So well, meditation is a practice. Is an exercise. What we want is to achieve this state of mindfulness, and mindfulness is just staying present on whatever you are doing.
And meditate, meditation, yeah, there are a lot of types of meditation and different types of practices, but there are exercises to practice this presence and being present in in the moment, in the now.
Adam Levy 16:43
And can you explain how that’s actually been helpful for you? Why is being present something that has helped you out in your career?
Ana Pineda 16:52
Oh, yeah, I love that. Some people tend to live in the past and tend to be very nostalgic. And other people live in the future and all the time waiting for the next thing.
And for me, I tended to always be like, “Oh, now it’s really hard, but when this experiment finishes, then it’s going to be better.”
And the thing is that things were not better, right? For a moment, yes, the big challenge stopped.
But then the new, new thing would come, and that, at some point, created a lot of anxiety, also in me, and also this feeling that you are not really enjoying what you’re doing now.
That’s when meditation would truly help me to stay in this moment and enjoy it and find the joy even in in the daunting tasks that we face as academics all the time.
Adam Levy 17:45
Now, you’ve actually valued this so much that you’ve kind of taken it to the next step to share it with other researchers. Can you explain this work that you do?
Ana Pineda 17:55
I help other scientists with their productivity and, indeed, their writing, and we do everything with this mindful approach.
For many scientists, there is this moment. I call it the “Should I stay or should I go now?” about leaving academia, and there’s something else.
I was finishing my last experimental paper, and it had been a struggle. I started this yoga teacher training, and suddenly this paper started coming together.
I could really manage all those negative thoughts that were really stopping me from finishing this paper.
And what I realized is that all these mindful practices that I was doing during that training was helping me with that, and that’s How I focus and write started.
Adam Levy 18:42
And can you explain what that work actually involves?
Ana Pineda 18:46
Well, we work with scientists from all around the world, mostly online. I teach them, mostly what I call the thriving scientist system.
This system has three components. One is the support. The support has to come from different fronts. The second component is the writing component, because I always say, we like it or not, in academia, we need to write, and this is quite a shock for many of us, but writing is so important, and we need a system to make that writing happen.
And then the third component is a productivity system. So together, those three components is what we teach and we help our our clients to implement.
Adam Levy: 19:30
And how have you seen these approaches, particularly the mindfulness approaches, impact the people you’ve worked with?
Ana Pineda 19:36
The fascinating thing is that, well, some of them already come with a certain level of awareness, and they already know what is happening, right? And why they have a problem that they need to solve. But a lot of people, they are not aware.
They just realize, for example, that they struggle with writing, and sometimes they think, “Okay, I don’t have the writing skills.” But the big surprise is always the mindset aspect. I love to say something that one student told me, like: Ana, I know how to write, but my fingers don’t want to type.
And actually, when I ask my students, but also the people in my audience, what is the number one struggle, that is procrastination.
And now we know that procrastination is actually not a time management problem.
So that’s something that we work with our students on how important is to first start managing your nervous system, and how these mindful practices can also help you to then reduce this procrastination, and therefore then end up they end up writing more. So this is just an example of how we can, we can help them.
Adam Levy 20:42
What would you say then to researchers who are maybe thinking about whether meditation and mindfulness could, could fit into their lives and could be a positive step in their lives? Do you have any tips on how to get started?
Ana Pineda 20:58
Oh yes. So I always recommend my favourite app is called Insight Timer.
It’s a free app, and in that app there is a course that it says, I think it’s something like, Learning to Meditate in Seven Days. So it’s a great way to start.
And then the second thing that I always say is we need to also put away this idea that to meditate you need to sit in a very uncomfortable position on the floor with the legs crossed.
You can meditate on a chair, you could even lie down in bed, if that’s easy for you. Any sort of practice that we can start implementing for our well being, to not just do it outside of working hours, that’s not my idea.
What we are seeing the best effects is when people truly integrate self-care and rest as part of their work.
And one of our mantras is that rest is productive.
So meditation, breathing exercise, whatever activity that connects you with the present moment is going to be beneficial for you, for your wellbeing, but also for for the work.
And for example, before one of our writing sessions, we do a mindful practice, and then after this exercise, then they start their focus session, where they write.
And well, what I hear is that they keep being surprised how well these sessions work. And a big component, I’m convinced, that is this exercise that comes down that nervous system.
Adam Levy 22:32
Now of course, you’re a big fan of mindfulness, of meditation, but do you see some people where it doesn’t connect for them, it doesn’t really help them out?
Ana Pineda 22:41
Oh, absolutely. It’s mainly the staying still, which is a problem. They’re not moving the body. What I encourage them is to combine these mindfulness with whatever physical activity they do. For example, I’m big fan of mindful walks.
So in this case, you will go for a walk, and instead of being there, spend some minutes just focusing on what you can see, what you can smell, what you can hear.
So this is so a way of meditating while moving your body.
Adam Levy 23:15
Now, can you explain how meditation, mindfulness, could fit into other steps to safeguard mental health and wellbeing, for example, seeking professional mental health support?
Ana Pineda 23:27
It’s okay, right, that you try your toolbox of wellbeing strategies that that you know that work well for you. And meditation can be one of these tools.
But many of us will face a moment when none of those tools is enough. When you feel none is not enough, it’s not working, it’s definitely time to seek for professional help.
And I was myself in one of those moments. And it was, it was actually in 2020, in the middle of the pandemic, and then I seek for that professional help.
And we’re with a psychologist. I see them like the same as we go to the house doctor. We also need to, in different situations in our life, search for that type of professional help.
So another thing about a team for professional help, and this is something that I hear from my students, is that sometimes, for example, like I told you, they come to me and they think they just want their writing skills, but then we start working together, and they start understanding that there is mindset aspects that are underlying their problem with writing.
They start realizing that they need that professional help to keep uncovering those struggles or issues that they have.
And this often comes out of that mindful approach, because pausing and paying attention at what is happening that can also show you a “Okay, I need to also take action on solving this issue.”
Adam Levy 25:03
What’s your personal dream for how we can do all this better? How in academia, we could approach mental health and wellbeing in a more careful way?
Ana Pineda 25:13
We need to change the system. I also want to say that just doing yoga classes for free, that’s not the way. When I mean that we need to change the system. I still work, for example, with PhDs that have serious issues with their supervisors.
So it’s important that everyone gets educated in these issues. So that’s also why I find great the topic of this podcast, and hopefully all those leaders, those academic leaders, those people who have people working in their teams, they understand also how they can better support people.
So that will be my dream to start.
Adam Levy 25:50
Ana Pineda there. As Ana touched on, individuals can only do so much to protect their mental health and promote their wellbeing.
After all, as this series has covered time and time again, the system of academia itself can have profound positive and negative impacts on mental health.
And so in our next and final episode of this series, we’re going to be taking the time to reimagine a healthier academic landscape.
Unknown source qoute 26:20
There are no silver bullets. There’s no one way to do this. But if we fundamentally want to see a different system, we have to actively and deliberately invest in those changes.
Adam Levy 26:32
Until then, this has been Mind matters: academia’s mental health crisis, a podcast from Nature Careers. Thanks for listening. I’m Adam Levy.
